Veterinary Medicine is Public Health - Vaccines for pets

Please vaccinate your pets. Dog autism is not a thing, and also rabies is worse. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to Everything Is Public Health. I'm MJ.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

And I'm Cass.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Cass, you have pets? Multiple, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Yes, I have two. I have a cat and a dog. And two adult children, which sometimes behave as pets, but we'll just focus on the actual animals a dog and a cat.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Have you always had pets?

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Yeah, always had pets. There was a short time, like in college, when I was living in dorms when I didn't have a pet, but you know, my first post-college roommate had a dog, and then James had dogs when we met. And yeah, most of my life with some small gaps have had pets. So Jinx is our cat. She's all black. And I thought it was hilarious to name her Jinx because they're supposedly bad luck. And we realized she is almost 13. Wow. She's a tiny little thing. She's only like seven pounds. And everybody thinks she's a kitten, but she's super old. And then Penny is a Norwegian boo-hund, which is like a little sheep herding dog. And she will be six in August.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Big old adult dog. Well, she's not that big, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

She still acts like a puppy.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Very cute. I am also a patterner. I have a cat, an orange tabby, who is the cutest thing in the world, but also a menace.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Clementine.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

I love her and I hate her at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

It's a good name for an orange cat.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

It is. She's so cute. Like she's very photogenic. Classic orange tabby. So I assume you have your fair share of vet interactions. Do you remember what vaccines your pets got?

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Yeah. Well, so Jinx gets, what is it, rabies and distemper.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Both my pets go to the vet regularly, like every year for their normal stuff. And then Penny gets a whole bunch. Because Penny goes outside and Jinx doesn't. So she just really gets her rabies stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Dogs are very different.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yeah. So obviously Penny gets rabies also, but then she gets a vaccine for Lyme disease. And maybe lepto. Maybe it's lepto and lime together. But then she also gets a ken kennel cough.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

That I've not heard of.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Because sometimes we board her and then heartworm.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

That one might not be a vaccine. I think that one's just like a medicine note.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Oh, yeah, you're right. She just takes like flea tick and heartworm medicine every month.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

But hey, we're public health people. We love preventative stuff, no matter what form it takes. Yep. I'm also I try to be a responsible pat owner. I also take my cat to the vet every year, mainly to get vaccines. Uh, she's pretty healthy otherwise. And because she is healthy and she's completely indoors, she doesn't interact with anyone or any other animal. My wife always question whether she needs to go to the vet because it is expensive. And I, as the public health representation in the house, out of principle, always take my cat to the vet regularly because we'll discuss this in a bit. Like it is important, even if they don't go outside that they get these things.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Yeah, I mean, people may come into your house and they may have pets and can bring something, but also like sometimes there's little bugs or little rodents that may get in, and you know, you want to make sure that your animals are vaccinated. So even if they don't leave the house, please, everybody, take your animals to the vet.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Especially in Baltimore, where rats are kind of around any corner. So uh definitely worth giving your cats and your pets some protections, even if they don't go outside. So today's topic is about pet vaccination. And we must start with the obligatory question: why is this public health?

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Okay, I'm excited for this one because I think we've talked before that we've got some really cool people that work at the school who do animal health and vaccine-related things. So there's a concept, it's called one health, which generally shouldn't come as a surprise, but the health of humans, animals, and our environment, we are all connected. We live in an ecosystem, right? And as a result, sick animals can infect humans. Some diseases can cross the species barrier. The most famous example probably is rabies. Once a human is infected with a virus, they have 10 days or before symptoms start to get the rabies vaccine. Otherwise, death is pretty much all but guaranteed. It has a 99.99% mortality rate after symptoms begin and is one of the most lethal viruses in human history. And it also is almost exclusively spread via animals. So please make sure that you have your pets um get vaccinated for rabies. And you may be saying, Cass, but wild animals, not my pets. Like, do you take your dog to the park? Does your dog interact with other dogs at the dog park? Does your dog go to doggy daycare? Is your cat allowed outside at all? Like even on a porch? Do you live in an area that has any kind of nature near it? So sick animals can harm local wildlife. They can be around your pets depending on where you are. So similar to herd immunity, protecting your pet means reducing the potential spread of diseases in wildlife, as well as wildlife then infecting your animals. Also, like sick and dead animals are a bummer. And animal abuse, including neglect, because neglect is abuse, is also bad. So please care for any pets that you choose to bring into your home.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

This is not just an animal's issue. This is a public health issue because disease don't care who your pet is. It just sort of exists in the wild and they infect who or what they can infect. Um, we're gonna focus on vaccine-preventable diseases for the rest of this episode. But in general, your pet's health can affect your health in other ways, not just from vaccine-preventable diseases. For example, your pet may contract bacterial infections and parasites, both of which may be able to infect humans. Some examples include hookworm, which is a parasite, camphylobacter, which is a bacteria, commonly found, I believe, in cats, but I could be wrong. Toxoplasmosis is a parasite that affects cats, can also affect humans, especially pregnant women need to be more worried about toxoplasmosis. Giardia, parasites again, ringworm. This one is a fungi. Not fun to get ringworms. I don't know if you've had them, Cass or As a kid.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yes, I had ringworm as a kid. It was not fun. I was like five, and I just have like in my memory, seared in my memory, this like patch. It was not fun.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Not fun. So try to avoid it if possible. And your animal, unfortunately, is one of the sources of potential infection. Another common one is uh salmonella, which is extra tricky because oftentimes the animals with it are asymptomatic. So you might not know that they contain that bacteria, and then you get it. And again, not fun to get salmonella poisoning.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Always a good idea to wash your hands after interacting with animals.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Even if your pet is indoors, you should be washing your hands.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

For sure. Did I ever tell you the Giardia story from when I was a microbiology major?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Tell me.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Okay. I was biology major, but I really specialized in microbiology. And we had come back from spring break, and we were in, I don't know, one of our first or second classes of medical microbiology. And there's a group of us that were all taking classes together, and we come outside, and a friend of a friend who's not in the biology major, but his friend sort of comes in and goes, Oh my gosh, I just got back from Mexico and we all got gonorrhea. She's shouting this, like 40 people are streaming out of this classroom. And of course, it's medical microbiology, and everybody like head whips over, like, I'm sorry, what? And she goes, Yeah, like we drank contaminated water and we all got gonorrhea.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

That's not how you get gone.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

We were like, Are you sure that it was gonorrhea, which is traditionally a sexually transmitted infection? Or perhaps might you have contracted giardia? And she was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, that sounds right. We got that one.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Just like announcing to the class, I have gonorrhea.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

It lives rent-free in my head. The social awareness to be like, I have gonorrhea. I'm gonna shout out, I got this disease in Mexico around 40 strangers was um, that was a choice.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

How did you get from Giardia gonorrhea to that's her first choice?

SPEAKER_03 7:47

She just knew it was a G sounding. Keep in mind, the interwebs was not what it is today. That's true. When I was in this class, this would have been probably 2002, maybe 2003.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Wait a second, there's an internet back then.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

There was the internet. It is not what it was today. People didn't have smartphones in their pockets everywhere. That's true. People were like barely texting. So slow your roll on the judgment.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

We have a different childhood.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

Anyway, bringing it back to the topic, if you live closer to nature, another popular category of diseases that can affect your pet, which can then affect you, are insect-borne diseases. The famous ones are tick-borne diseases like Lyme disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, both dangerous. I had Lyme disease. Not fun. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. And remember, folks, I had major abdominal surgery. So saying that like Lyme disease was one of the worst, it's definitely like top three worst things I've ever experienced.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Dang, ringworm and Lyme disease.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

I mean, that was they were like 35 years apart. So there's that.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Still. Well, in short, your pet's health is important for all involved, and taking them to the vet on a regular basis is important. For some diseases, some preventative measures can be taken, including medications and vaccines. Vaccines in particular are an amazing achievement that can prevent so many diseases, including the big one, rabies. It's important to get those annual, or we'll get to this. It's technically not annual, it's one to three years, but for the sake of simplicity, we'll say annual. To get those uh regular vaccines for your pets and stay updated on immunization. Now, what does that look like? We'll focus mainly on cats and dogs, and those are the two most common pets here.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Yeah, and we've talked a little bit about these, but to group them into a couple just to kind of think about what may be necessary versus not. For dogs, we've got rabies, which you mentioned, DA2PP, which is canine distemper, adenovirus, parvavirus, and parainfluenza, and leptospirosis, which is a bacteria. Then we have some lifestyle vaccines. So they may be uh recommended depending on where you live, the kinds of activities that you do. So Lyme disease, canine influenza, borderella, those last two are pretty commonly required if you board your dog or take them to puppy daycare, those kinds of things. But puppies have different vaccine schedules than adult dogs, just like human children and babies have different vaccines than adults. So always take your pet in, take your dog into the vet for everything. We are not giving you medical or veterinary advice, just encouraging you to speak to someone who is actually licensed to make sure that you're getting the right vaccines that you need for your dog.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, and as for cats, things are a bit different. And some vets are advocating for vaccinate as needed, depending on various factors. However, the general premise of regular vaccines are still widespread. The core vaccines for cats, which is recommended to receive every one to three years, depending on the situation. The first one is FVRCP, which is another combo vaccines, which are fantastic. Why get multiple shots when you could get one? You know, that vaccine covers feline herpivirus, what the hell is it? Khaleesi Oh, Khaleesi, I think is Khaleesi.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

We're gonna go with that.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Khaleesi virus and panleucopenia, which is uh feline distemperament, and obviously the rabies vaccines. And I cannot stress this enough. Rabies is the big one, like you gotta get those. Cats also have non-core or lifestyle vaccines, which may be recommended by your vet depending on the situation that you're in and the status of your uh cat. Feline leukemia is a very common lifestyle vaccine for cats, and also feline immunodeficiency virus, the cat version of HIV, also highly recommended, and Bordotella again. Now, so I did read somewhere that the idea of annual vaccines are kind of a little bit of a misnomer because it's technically one to three years. If you're a vet, please let us know what your stance is on this. So, vaccines, great, great for people, great for animals, just a good thing in general. The inspiration for this episode is twofold. Cass, unfortunately, we have to go into Bummerland.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Oh no. We made it so far, though.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

We made it so far talking about happy animals and vaccines, but we have to go to Bummerland for a little bit. Two inspirations for this episode. The first inspiration is public health's old nemesis, the anti-vaxxers. Womp womp. If they don't want to vaccinate people, why would they want to vaccinate animals? Cass, have you heard of, or maybe we've talked about this, dog anti-vaxxers?

SPEAKER_03 12:08

I have heard of dog anti-vaxxers because I have a friend in the neighborhood who is a dog trainer. And so there are rules about like if you're going to bring your dog to group classes and different things, like you have to prove they gotta be protected.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Not just say, oh, I vaccinated my dog. You have to actually submit vaccine records to make sure that your dog is not gonna spread something around. And people can get really shifty and shady about stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Really?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Like trying to falsify information or being like, Oh, yeah, I got it. Like, I just can't find the records, and oh, like let me just bring my dog this one time and like trying to get around stuff. And you don't want to be the one who's gonna let somebody bring their dog in and then everybody else's puppies get sick. So there can be some drama there. Like, I don't know any more juicy stories than that, but I just I have heard that can be a problem.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

I bet that friend has juicy stories.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Oh, I'm sure she does.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

I'm sure she does. Get her on the pot. Tell us all the conflict that she's had. But the fact that there are irresponsible pet owners out there isn't so surprising. But estimates suggest one in four pet dogs may not be fully vaccinated. This number is worse for cats and other pets, and several vets are reporting an increasing instance of pet owners who are concerned about the quote unquote safety of vaccines for their dogs. And the most ridiculous concern is a concern for dog autism. And Cass, what do you think dog autism would even look like? Oh, she's gone. We lost her. She's having a laughing fit.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

I can't breathe. I can't breathe.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I she's leaning back in her chair, having an absolute laughing fit. Still gone. I'm gonna keep this entire thing on edit.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Okay. I have so many thoughts and feelings about them turning red because I'm laughing so hard. I literally have tears coming out of my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

So beat red.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

So okay. So, folks who maybe it's your first time listening, maybe you haven't heard an episode where I've talked about my kids in a while. Some folks may recall that one of my kids is on the autism spectrum.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

I don't think I've ever left that in.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Oh, okay. Well, one of my kids is is on the autism spectrum. And to be concerned, first of all, vaccines do not cause autism.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Nope. Boom. Hard line.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

That is well established. The quote unquote evidence is fraud that was used to justify that was completely fabricated. There is no meaningful, qualified evidence to in any way, shape, or form prove that vaccines cause autism. So just start there. But then to sort of translate that false fear from kids into pets, like that, that's why I just I reject the premise of the statement. It's just so, so silly to go there.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Also, like, is autism worse than rabies? I can't understand.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

That was my other thing. Like, and I don't want to minimize this at all, right? Because the attachment I have to my pets is strong. They are my fur babies, right? I love them and I want to take care of them. And I certainly don't want to do things that would knowingly harm them. But then that's why you would want to get your animals vaccinated because rabies is horrible. And some of these other things that you can get from other animals are not fun either. Like they can be really traumatic. Animals can get really sick. So, like, I find the whole concept frustrating. I will say, with all of that, sometimes it can be a real pain in the ass to get a cat or a dog to the vet. My own cat, we have to drug her to like calm her down because otherwise she like freaks out in her little crate thingy and spazzes out. But then when she gets to the vet, she doesn't want to get out of the crate. So then we have to like drag her out of the crate. It's very traumatic all around. So we just dope her up and that works a little bit better. All of that is to say I don't want to conflate people who like want to take their pet to the vet but struggle. I have other friends who have the same problem versus people who like have no problem getting their pet to the vet, but then choose to not properly vaccinate their animals.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Two very different types of situation. I mean, we sort of glossed over this, but rabies is so bad. It's one of those things, if symptoms start showing, you're dead. It's just a matter of time. Very few people have survived rabies after symptoms start showing.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

One of my friends from high school, this was not a trip that we were on together, but she was telling the story and she had her legs hanging over the dock. Like she was sort of swinging her legs in the water, and a raccoon like came up and bit the back of her leg.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

A raccoon?

SPEAKER_03 16:33

Yeah, it like crawled along the underside, went over and bit her.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

What a determined raccoon. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Well, rabies like makes you wackadoo.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

So she had to get the shot, which was she was like 16 shots in her belly, or like something absolutely crazy to get treated for it. And she was like super traumatized about ever going back to the lake again, which is understandable. Yeah. So, you know, try to not have your own pet become a crazy raccoon who's gonna bite you on a dock.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Exactly. That was inspiration number one. There are a lot of people who are starting to refuse vaccinations for their animals. It's sad. Like we barely have a way to get people to vaccinate, and efforts to vaccinate animals is obviously less attended to. Despite most states and local jurisdiction requiring the rabies vaccines by law, enforcement is almost non-existent because I don't know, it's just not on top of people's list. Even if it's required by law, when there's no enforcement, it's really hard to actually get that rates up.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Common public health problem.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Just because a law exists doesn't mean it actually gets done. There needs to be enforcement. It's been a long-term problem, but we're starting to see it get a little bit worse. The second inspiration for this episode has to do with another disease that is commonly spread by animals because this disease is spread by ticks. And ticks get on animals, animals, you know, move around, Lyme disease. You may have noticed that dolls can get Lyme disease vaccines. Cass, question for you. Is there a vaccine for Lyme disease for people?

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Haha, trick question. I know this one. Oh because is there one? There used to be. And they were marketing it, and then people got freaked out about side effects. And so then they stopped marketing it, even though it was great. No reason to get Lyme. You don't get Lyme disease anymore. And yeah, I'm trying to remember exactly. Like maybe somebody had a bad reaction that I don't even know if it was directly tied to the actual vaccine, but something happened and people were like, oh my god, the vaccine is so terrible. And then they pulled it, even though it was actually like a pretty effective vaccine at preventing Lyme disease among humans. Did I get that right, Jen really?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

That was a trick question. I was trying to trick you, and I admit to that. The answer is at one point we did.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

I was right.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

We did have a Lyme vaccine.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

I even knew it was a trick question.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, you did. It was called a Lyme Rex vaccine, and it was approved in 1998. However, less than five years later, the manufacturer pulled the vaccine. So this vaccine is no longer available to people, which is very sad because do you know how many people get Lyme every year? Tens of thousands. It's not like a rare thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

No, it's not a rare thing. And the problem is a lot of people get Lyme disease, but they don't get the classic bullseye rash. So, or they don't know that they were bit by a tick. So then they feel horrible and they have no idea why. They eventually start to feel better, don't do anything about it. But there are long-term effects. You can get Bell's palsy, which half of your face stops moving. You can have horrible arthritis and other like symptoms that just carry on forever. I thankfully knew I'd been bitten by a tick and got the classic bullseye. So I knew that I needed a longer term of antibiotics, but man, it's like so gnarly if you get it, even worse if it keeps going.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

So it's a classic public health case study, like a historical case study, because, like you said, it was approved and they started distributing it. And a few people report adverse events after receiving the vaccine, namely um arthritis after getting it. And there was a huge media circus about this, and that effectively killed the vaccine. People didn't want to get it anymore. And this time I kind of don't actually blame the Farnest World Company because not enough people were getting it, they have no reason to make it anymore. And it's a case study because it really shows one, how powerful the media is. Like without the media circus, this perhaps would not have happened. But the media was really interviewing these people. Like after this, they obviously did the correct thing, which is well, let's investigate. Is there any substantial claims to this thing that, oh, this Lyme vaccine causes these adverse reactions? And they failed to find any difference. The rate of adverse events was not significantly higher than the general population.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Which is what you would expect with the fact that the vaccine had gone through testing and was approved for distribution in the first place. So it's sad because I could have not gotten sick from the little deer tick that bit me had I been able to be vaccinated.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

This is just such a clear case of people's experience, oftentimes can be made more important than data. I have no doubt that the people who experienced those arthritis symptoms are suffering. I'm sure they had a terrible time.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

But the media response was irresponsible.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Now we no longer have a Lyme disease vaccine. But your dog can get it. So please continue to vaccinate your dogs against Lyme because a lot of times people get bit not because the tick jumped on them, but the tick jumped on their dog, and then their dog slept with them in bed, and that's usually how that happens. Anyway, bummer land is over.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

So hopefully folks are motivated to understand how animal health, again, this one health concept animals, humans, and environment are all related. And vaccinating your animals is a great way to improve the public self.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. I think an appropriate microgrid for this episode is take your animals to the vet, folks. Um, and also after you take your animals to the vet, take yourself to the doctor because you need an annual physical too. A lot of people I know take their pets to the vet more often than they take themselves. And come on, both you and your animal need to get regular preventative care.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

So my micro good is to send someone a letter or a postcard or some kind of note in the mail. Receiving handwritten notes is awesome. And find a good pen and support the USPS by putting a stamp on it.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yes. Buying lots of stamps. Thank you for listening to everything is public health. New episodes every other week. If you like the show, please tell everyone you know about the show. That helps us immensely. Commenting, subscribing, and leaving us a review helps us a bunch as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

If you have any questions or think we missed an important perspective, you can reach out to us at everything is public health at gmail.com. Follow our website, everything is publichealth.com for all show updates and bonus material. And remember, everything is public health.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Everything is public health.